This week and next week in the newsletter we’re talking about the development of the public library system in the US. We’re tracking the evolution of private library clubs to “palaces for the people,” with an eye towards how we can build a social infrastructure like the library system on the internet. So we’re asking you:
What would a public library look like on the internet?
If you love your library, please tell us about it and the role it plays in your life and in your community. As you navigate through your digital communities and daily online rituals, do you see any overlap? How can we build spaces online that, as libraries can, encourage you to be the best version of yourself?
We are assuming that you, like us, are looking for more flourishing places on the internet. We want this to be one of those places! Please treat others with openness, generosity and respect.
When I think about the importance of the library in my community, I think about its location. My library is across from the largest park in Brooklyn and the area around it is a nexus of diverse people, vendors, activities, information, culture, and entertainment. It's a place where everyone can go for all kinds of of civic and general stuff. It all contributes to everyone's wellbeing and much of it is free. I would love a place like that on the internet. - Joi
I love this, and it makes me think, the idea isn't just "a" place on the Internet, right? Part of what makes libraries work is that they're localized to their communities. Having a single library, that tries to be "one size fits all" probably wouldn't work nearly as well.
The Internet erases a lot about distance, removing some of the reasons real-life libraries are separate, but, even putting aside things like time zones, different countries' laws, and different Internet speeds, I think being able to have libraries for different Internet communities would be incredibly valuable.
Thinking this through as I go, they wouldn't have to ignore each other. Real libraries share best practices, rely on the same system (in America at least) of graduate degrees for their employees, and often belong to larger organizations that enforce standards through accreditation. But in the end an individual public library usually has a Board of Trustees who set its direction, a Director who sets individual policies, and librarians making the day-to-day decisions. This gives the flexibility one library might focus more on, say, making local kids feel more welcome because that's what the community has needed, while another library might have a series of events and informational display on race relations because that's what their community needs.
I think we've seen what happens when we try to make one big area on the Internet that fits as many people as possible (to say nothing oh Facebook, Barrons chat anyone?). Focusing on making a kind of Internet-based library that serves one community, and helping other libraries spring up that can take lessons but do their own thing, seems like it could be really successful.
Love your point about libraries being localised to communities! I think the closest thing to this that I've seen on the internet is Reddit wikis - a collection of information which the users of that subreddit community think is important to keep easily accessible, and is built on or refined over time. As well as being a repository of external information it also allows the subreddit itself to become a 'library' by linking to important or valued posts in the community.
I love how physical libraries enable learning albeit at times with limited opportunities for social and experiential learning depending on the location. I would go to my childhood local library and pull a stack of books from the shelves, and get lost in novels sitting in the corner. I think this is where digital libraries could shine, creating spaces for discussion, questioning and synthesis. I'm imagining collaborative annotation, data visualization and embodiment of research and knowledge, and storytelling infrastructure to weave new narratives. I see digital libraries as spaces moving from knowledge consumption to wisdom generation, a key component of imagination infrastructure.
It feels like magic every time my children and I enter the library, welcomed. We browse without hurry, follow our curiosities and borrow without restraint. There is peace in the coming and going.
The public library is one of the few places that hits the right note of what it means to create a sense (or space) of belonging: It’s a combination of how it's designed, the people in it, and the unspoken rules and behaviors associated with it. The library, for me, was an incredible safe haven during a difficult time in my childhood and I remember there was no shame and no embarrassment that I often carried everywhere else -- the moment I walked into those doors there was always just an incredible amount of empathetic dignity and an open invitation to be. I wish more places, especially online, could embody what the library offers. Perhaps leaning more into trauma informed design could be a good start.
In college, I enjoyed running into friends at the library. In an internet library, it'd be cool to be able to see who else is browsing for the same information as you, and have a way to generate a meaningful interaction from that.
View counters from the early Web have long been out of fashion but they do have a bit of that kind of charm.
Come to think of it, a few webapps that use the "shared document" model like Google Docs, Dropbox Paper, and Miro show other people's cursors in Edit mode, and that absolutely has lead to the equivalent of bumping into a friend before. I'll see someone's cursor move as they click through a doc, and then go message them on whatever DM platform we share to say "Hey! I see you there! Any thoughts?" I hadn't noticed how much that's like running into someone at the library.
The libraries near me do SO much. There is a fabrication section with a 3d printer, a tool library to rent and learn how to use a tool for your project, and a sewing section too!
They are also invaluable for connecting people to services! Lending out computers, helping apply to jobs or write resumes. A general place for anyone to come in and rest and warm up. The internet has not a whole lot of places to just chill. There is always so many things in your face all the time. If you have a learning disability, or are uncomfortable with a computer, it's hard to know what to do then go to the usual places. A community room or pen pal system would be so cool.
I love seeing the storytimes for kids, and i just love looking through the stacks. Finding strange foreign films that I wouldn't have seen before, and checking out the events. A lot of authors will come through for talks, but they also do smaller more common events like teaching kids DnD.
When I was a kid/teenager, really liked using my library for:
- Live events, like author talks, cooking/craft classes, etc.
- They often had free passes to local museums and cultural events
I still use Libby to read most of my books, but the connection of the library to the rest of the local cultural ecosystem is what was most exciting to me about the physical location!
Yes! great point. I have taught comics and zine-making classes at DC libraries before and it's always been great. I also love Libby (and have concerns about its ownership).
One thing I've really missed during the pandemic are my library's study rooms, which you sign out to work in solo or with someone else for an hour or two at a time. Especially after two years of working ONLY from home, I miss having that place where I can go and focus for a little while.
Libraries, schools, churches— all physical anchors of and metaphors for community life. But libraries are perhaps the most democratic, radical, and generous. I’m not really in school or church much these days, the library (and bookstores) fill that nourishing third place role in my life— a place to learn, aspire, and connect.
A few things I’ve noticed in libraries, especially in the last decade:
- Everday innovation // Libraries and librarians are natural “last mile” innovators, listening and creatively responding to needs of a diverse public
- Service hubs // Whether explicit access to social services (e.g. assistance, IDs) or information hubs, local libraries often bridge the gaps in highly fragmented civic service delivery (e.g. new citizens, prison re-entry, etc)
- Beyond the book // Love the evolution about what can be borrowed at a library — hobby kits, local experts, language conversation partners, etc.
- Community curation // The murals, mini-exhibits, and displays in libraries (sometimes in partnership with museums) are such lovely ways to democratize access to culture and bring stories/knowledge to life.
Online, we see community managers, like librarians— creating third spaces for peer support and learning. However, like librairians, their skills, strategic insight, and needs are often overlooked and underleveraged. How might we view these roles in new ways?
Enshrined on Brooklyn Public Library— almost spiritual, no?
—
"Here are enshrined the longing of great hearts and noble things that tower above the tide, the magic word that winged wonder starts, the garnered wisdom that never dies." -Roscoe C. Brown
I'll offer this little guide a few friends did with Chicago Public Library/Copenhagen at IDEO that honors the creativity of librarians well. http://designthinkingforlibraries.com
So much of the public library is its accessibility - many without other access currently use public libraries to access the internet itself, so putting a library on the internet feels like it is placing a barrier to entry that doesn't exist in the '3D' version. So it feels like that would have to be dealt with somehow, through physical location or mobile connection or something like that. Like, could you 'check out' the whole library on a free device? How might inclusive online spaces incorporate the actual online access part?
Also we joke about the shushing in libraries but it's because it's such a signature of a successful space to have respectful norms like that, that feels like a core aspect of creating any online space - librarians as wise moderators.
The librarian as moderator is a great metaphor, but it's worth thinking about what kind of moderator a librarian is: an empowered, trained professional with broad expertise and sophisticated people skills! –Josh
Yes, and so much of that gets lost behind a keyboard, the way interactions are designed/limited now. I'm not even sure you can put it in there, because it's about deeply listening and connecting things in this human way, walking a kid over to a shelf, handing someone a stack of suggested books, instilling that sense of peace and resolve, moving around deliberately, these are qualitative things - taking in body language, when eyes light up, hearing subtext. Even just eye contact and greeting. I so vividly remember how the librarians moved and their welcoming faces. Oh, and the ka-chunk of that thing stamping the card in the book!
Heck, I'm editing and re-editing this knowing I'm not going to have any gestures or other things to work with... but I hear you on qualities of a moderator and that role.
I love libraries and have grown to appreciate their usefulness more as I got older. There are challenges with access (certain sections are blocked because of age or pedigree- reference sections in particular) and overdue books pose a stigma and penalty. We don't create stewardship when these structural barriers are created. Being able to cultivate and foster grace in spaces would be beneficial.
A lot of libraries around me are starting to become fine-free! Which itself is a reminder to me that libraries aren't perfect, but keep seeking to improve themselves (and they learn from each other: a decade ago, fine-free libraries were rare, and libraries often were against it. But the first few inspired a few more, and so on until now it's a pretty major movement.) In seeking inspiration from libraries for the Web, we should not only learn from how we think about and remember libraries, but in how libraries never stop looking for ways to improve and better serve their communities!
I love this question, I just submitted a BKC application on the same subject. My name's Mek, I help run Open Library at the Internet Archive, one of the world's first non-profit digital libraries.
To me, above all, libraries represent an opportunity for equitable access to the material required to allow all members of society to participate in the great conversation. They are a way of enabling us to pool our resources to help each other and promote common good. They are places which protect our privacy, help us find answers, and provide us with a safe place to think.
I've been asking 4 lines of inquiry:
1. Bringing Libraries Online. What does it look like for a public library to make the digital leap onto the Internet? What services does it provide? How does it make material accessible? How do these institutions deal with born-digital material? There are some major challenges to this happening: https://mekarpeles.medium.com/content-landlords-and-the-eviction-of-american-libraries-18461f9d819a
2.The Internet AS a Library. What does the Internet look like as a Library? i.e. what do libraries look like as they blossom beyond books? How might borrowing work in the native browser? How do libraries function with born-digital material? How are libraries browsed? Can patrons borrow from each other natively? Here's the future I imagine if the Internet was built as a Library:
3. A Defensible Commons. As @bhaviklathia perfectly says[1]: "WE NEED ONLINE COMMONS THAT ARE IMMUNE TO THE CORROSIVE IMPACT OF THE PROFIT INCENTIVE". What does this look like? Who can fund works for the commons? How is it funded? What is the Internet's First Sale Doctrine? Who regulates it and how -- what is the governance? What does the public domain of the future look like and who maintains it? Who ensures the holdings of the common are equitable and diverse? [1] https://twitter.com/bhaviklathia/status/1488288622335963137
4. The Evolving Needs of Patrons. The physical Carnegie library model exists to solve certain geographic constraints. In a fully digital world, what are the needs of patrons which the previous model isn't prepared to accommodate? For instance, online learning for parents, teachers, and students. Access to scholarship for researchers in remote areas. Tools for collaboration.
I think the modern library should be a social commons. Place to get information - sure. Books/internet/magazines etc should always be a part of the library. But a future library would be a great space & place for all folks in a given community to gather, interact and learn from each other, as well as from the resources in the library. My kids are often exposed to some of the more colourful characters in our community when we visit the library. And I love that aspect of it.
In our community, our library is in the core of the community where we don't have any open spaces. So if the library had a co-located park/open space with shelter where people could gather - ala town square - I would then encourage people to gather IRL in complement to online. We have parks - having a librarypark would allow that gathering of many layers of social strata to collect both inside and out.
I'd like to see that co-mingling of many layers of the community being able to gather online too at a digital librarypark. Place where you can cross-paths with someone that you never would otherwise.
Oh man - if my middle-school aged son could be researching a topic and have a scholar "sit next to him" and they shared some knowledge on the matter - that would be so powerful. That's a great thought!
Sure, risky. Fraught with peril if we think of all the potential negative outcomes. But also such a chance for a great experience for both!
I have a visceral reaction against public libraries on the internet. The physical library is quiet, casual, slow pace, distinctive smell, the anticipation of discovering an even better book while looking for the one I thought I wanted, running into friends, and joining in a meeting/concert/presentation on a common interest. The physical public library can't be replaced.
However, qualities that an "internet library" must have -- but are hard to foster on the internet -- (except for perhaps Wikipedia, which, yes, is a specific type of social media platform). Jonathan Rauch's book, The Constitution of Knowledge, contains a wonderful discussion of these qualities, which are found in one or another social media platform, but ALL of these essential qualities are found in no existing social media platform.
Me too. I find most internet places to be suseptible to abrasiveness. This almost never happens at a library. Human to human unrecorded un technology monitored interaction is key to authenticy.
Really like the ideas in "The Ecology of Law: Toward a Legal System in Tune with Nature and Community" by Fritjof Capra, Ugo Mattei
I feel if the concepts in his writings were integrated into any algorithims on the internet the internet would be a much better place.
I find that the intent of most programming is miyopic mostly becasue the programming is done in a vacumm that does not understand the wisdom of nature and the concept of "the commons"
I think you hit it on the head. We have some ingredients for a constrictive digital commons - but no one has baked the cake...yet.
One idea I had in this arena: A new Social Community Platform (SCP). New_Public has my attention for this reason - I think they are collectively barking up this tree.
The basic premise: each element of this new SCP (user, group, non-profit, business, etc) has to be linked to a real-life, legally verified, entity. As in - you can't have an online-only group. There are platforms for online-only - lots.
What I envision is a digital space that is "bolted to the ground" such that - as an example - the physical library still exists, but it has a digital equivalent too. That way, my digital representation can go to the digital library, or physical to physical. Physical to digital - META :) And the experience(s) can be similar. Or different. That is up to the person/organization/business. But this way, we can maintain a sense of locality, in a system (the internet) that is so broad and world-wide. You then have a better ability to keep your online experience localized, and if you decide to 'travel' then you can do that online, with intent.
Want to visit the Louvre? - pay the fee, and come inside - without the plane fare & carbon emissions that goes with it. Want to learn about hiking groups near you - stay local "on the map".
Some would say: that sounds like another website and more work for the person/group/business. However most of them are already maintaining a website, and a FB page, and Google profile, and Twitter, and, and...
IF this new SCP was truly in service of building community, AND it attracted critical mass, THEN each real-world entity only needs one or possibly two digital entities (website still...?), and the corporately-linked ones (FB, Goog, Twit) can all mine their information from it - for a fee! The monolithic corporate ones would wither and die if we stopped populating them will all our content! ELSE - we stay on this digitally fragmented and soulless journey to who-knows-where... END_IF :)
Very insightful comments Christopher! I'm curious, do you believe the world will be better off if we forge towards housing more libraries on the internet... or perhaps not? Thanks for your time.
Hi Nick - I tried reading digital books and audiobooks, but in the end I came back to the physical book, where I can underline and easily flip back to previous chapters and my prevous underlining and comments. I like holding the physical book in my hands while I read. I like Rocky's insight above that the internet library's "digital space must be bolted to the ground" in a real, physical, local library. For me, it comes down to, am I using the internet or is it using me. I find that all internet connections are disconnected from reality by at least an order of magnitude, and thus disconnect me from reality. As long as I manage the disconnect for brief periods to accomplish my purpose, I am using the internet. When I get distracted and start doing things other than I intended, then the internet is using me. I really object to that.
The way you put it, I'm being terribly used by the Internet. 😔 🤗 By the way, I really like the way you worded your last comment. In fact, I agree! It's just something about that physical book experience that cannot be wholly duplicated across the web--particularly the smell of books. Although I did read about Samsung planning to create digital devices made to release smells. I digress...
It seems like there is this digital divide between accessing digital books and reading physical books. On one side you have those who love reading books online. On the other side you have those who prefer physical books and library experiences. Which, I find it interesting that digital reading experiences can be constantly improved upon to mimic physical book or library experiences. Thus the question becomes, are physical reading experiences being improved upon fast enough to keep pace with the digital world?
This is all very intriguing. Thank you Christopher, for your comments!
Libraries are one of the few places remaining that allow an individual to simply exist. They have no expectation of a purchase or a purpose. They do not try to sell anything. They do not track every movement, every book you pick up, or every aisle you browse. They do not generate tax revenue.
So a digital library should operate under the same principles. Everyone is on an equal footing. Everyone can offer something, but that doesn't mean everyone is amplified.
My favorite thing about the library is how fulfilling it is to shift from a culture of "infinite scroll" to infinite learn--literally sprawled out between the stacks looking for something new to dive into. From the curated series that librarians set up, to the shift away from books as the only thing shared, to housing archival collections about community-specific history and locally produced cannon, libraries feel like the truest multi-functional, most welcoming, and most DIVERSE space in my community. I wish that the online world would feel more like this.
This is maybe inherent in the question, but perhaps worth calling out specifically: public libraries have "interpretive flexibility." They persisted and grew in America because they have been broadly popular to different groups of people for different reasons. The fact that one physical space can be the home for so many different visions (as illustrated by the great answers in this thread) is part of the power of public libraries.
The physical public library is a two-sided platform. Its permanence in a physical community with expert staff offers it the capacity to grow, develop, respond and evolve as neighborhood needs, media and technology shifts. I think interpretive flexibility has been key to (relatively) stable, democratic funding over the course of the past several decades.
This conversation is amazing and so needed. I agree strongly with so many of the points made here about online libraries needing to be equitable, social, interactive spaces for learning as well as building community and providing a safe, welcoming space. I’ve been inspired by New_Public in thinking about these much-needed public spaces (the parks, the libraries). My current work is focused on community-building and equity-gap-bridging in virtual worlds.
I’ve just finished my first attempt at a virtual library experience for Black History month. It’s on the Virbela Open Campus platform, but the concepts could be applied to other virtual worlds as well. I am not a designer or programmer by training, and this platform provides users with many customization options for an average user (images, audio, video, presentations, etc.). For example, using photographic images of real libraries to help users feel like they are in that type of space. Using Biophilic Design principles (images and sounds of nature) to create a feeling of calm and quiet. Thinking about concepts like skeuomorphism to help guide users through a space (if you see an image of a book, you might think to click on it to “open” it, linking to more information online). Facilitating community by having areas with virtual tables and chairs and a private volume “bubble" for book clubs, etc.
I would be grateful for any thoughts and feedback from this group of thought leaders. I think it’s so important to realize the benefit of perpetual, welcoming virtual spaces for learners (of all ages) and communities (local and global). They afford us an additional layer of connection with other humans to help lift us all up with knowledge and career opportunities. The virtual public library at the heart of successful online communities, so as is being discussed here, we need to get it right!
The first time I've been to a "public" library was when I lived in Copenhagen, Denmark. I was 38 years old. my kids and I loved that the libraries provided books in the languages of communities surrounding the library. but what impressed the most was the freedom and how EVERYONE uses the library which made it such a community space. after my time in Copenhagen I decided to go back to Sudan and start my own library starting with my own collection of books: Sudanartanddesignlibrary.com ....
The Idea of an Internet public library wouldn't be ACCESSIBLE in places like Sudan due to the instability of electricity and how expensive internet is.
Wow, really cool to hear you started your own library!
I do think it's important not to miss that any attempts to make an public library on the Internet need to never try to replace physical libraries. As you say, they're just too inaccessible. I'm much more interested in how libraries can be used to inspire better places on the Internet, so that when people do manage to get online, they can have positive interactions and supportive places to spend their time, just like libraries can be.
In fact, I would love to see the same kind of phenomenon you're describing in person happen online too - someone who is commonly on the Internet could visit a library-inspired Internet space, be impressed by the freedom and community they see there, and then go make one for their own Internet community to try and further share the experience.
But you're right, this is entirely from the perspective of having a choice about where to go on the Internet, rather than considering whether you can access the Internet in the first place.
I wonder if there are some insights to be gained from the success of Little Free Libraries (the mini libraries you see in yards, some schools, parks and other public spaces). There are now more than 150,000 of them in the US alone with growing efforts to place them in low income areas and communities far from public libraries where children especially have little access to books. There are so many retired teachers, former librarians and many others who enjoy acting as Library stewards and maintaining and curating their little free libraries. I wonder if there is a way to translate that passion and pride into something that worked as digital spaces.
This art project may be of interest here: https://libraryofbabel.info/About.html. The structure, organization, and conceptualization of Borges' original work is reflected here, and can potentially inspire the construction of other systems.
One thing I miss and love about libraries is immersion and serendipity. (And librarian curation!)
While goodreads, bookshop, amazon (I know, yuck) introduce recommendations and lists, there's nothing like going into a stack looking for one title and leaving with a stack of surprises. The ability to browse, page through books, immerse—before bringing books home. (Not to mention carrels...) Le sigh— nothing quite close online.
(....and the old school library pocket and card to see who has read it before you?! Game changer in elementary school.)
With a huge nod to Dipayan Ghosh (Terms of Disservice, terrific read) -- Libraries (both public and academic) can help us reconceive the internet as a public good, and for the most part, I think they are trying to do that.
Tech company giants would like us to believe that the current internet was inevitable. That the tradeoffs (which are so troubling to civil society - the data surveillance, devastating deployment of AI/ML, etc) are just an inevitable part of the territory. In other words, all that we could ever have expected from the internet is just what has been delivered by Google, Facebook and Amazon. They’ll take credit (and profits) for what we like – finding things, connecting with people, getting stuff. But any of the tradeoffs imposed by their business models and practices are not their problem, and they want us thoroughly indoctrinated – that there is no better way to have developed a world wide internet for civil society. For the tech bros, the job of political leaders is just to squirrel around and try to mitigate the horrors this "model" of the internet has brought about. In their view, we just don't understand how innovation works if we believe we could ever have had an internet whose affordances could be fully directed to addressing racism, poverty, climate change, international conflict, universal quality healthcare, and the like. Could we have had a different internet? Is the development of the internet so very different from the way that the unscrupulous flocked to the opium trade, slavery, colonial exploitation, imperialist violence and more because of the huge profits to be made?
My love for libraries is that they are a place to ask these kinds of questions and for society to come together around possibilities.
1. Mimic my ability to share or give away a physical book and get it back or give the ability to pass it on to the person it was shared with.
It would also support authors by hosting their works.
Maybe a NFT that is attached to a book / audiobook / video that allows the media to be bought sold and loaned out.
2. The online community would also allow a user to recreate the user experiance of walking into a real library in real life IRL and have someone help them find/search for information they are looking for.
I love IRL librarys becasue the staff/librarirans are alwasy so knowlegable and super quiet/respectful.
If there was a way to recreate this experiance online that would be so useful.
Good point. We love the Libby app, which has facilitated the borrowing of so many ebooks and audiobooks during the pandemic, but it's got nothing on librarians in terms of recommendation and finding what you're actually looking for.
Lex Fridman has mentined a few times the ability to deploy your own personal algorithm to do things for you the user.
I'd love to see a Library Platform that allowed me to build my own search algorithim. Like the one on YouTube but with the ability to make your personal algorithim avalible for others to leverage.
Kind of like when you talk to someone you know who has information about a topic you don't. They have their own way of thinking about something (their algoritim) and you are using it to help find update your own algorithim.
Duplicate that capability in the virtual world would be amazing.
Allow users to create non monitary or monitary relationships when using somone elses algorithim and that internet would become pretty cool.
You could do things like you do in real life. When you find somone who knows how to find something you can't becasue of their understanding, their algorithm, and in stead of google maintaining your algorithim and all the work you put into it to "tweak it" you the user would monitize it or not (make it avalible freely).
That would be soooooo cool. I want to work on building that platform!!!
Libraries used to purchase books and lend them. This meant:
1. Libraries pay once for a book
2. With each passing year, libraries retain access to books
3. These books eventually enter the public domain
But with Libby/Overdrive:
1. A library is renting the book
2. A library must pay an exorbitant markup for the digital book (which they're forced to do because libraries don't have engineers to compete and create their own lending system). This means libraries are affording fewer books. But it gets worse.
3. Because of [1], the library must *re-lease* the book each passing year. This not only means even fewer books each year, it means books actually *disappear* from their holdings over time.
4. Because these books are leased and not owned, libraries have different rights. For instance, the books are never owned an so libraries can't take their copy and bring them into the public domain. And there's no promise a publisher will keep 70+ year books around which aren't profitable. So:
What happens to the public domain?
This is a raw deal for tax payers who are:
* paying more to get less.
* getting robbed of a public domain.
* having their commons disappear each year a library can't afford to re-lease a book.
Interesting. Maybe the libraries should talk to Amazon about this. My agreement with Amazons Audible is to purchase books on their platform. I have cancelled my audible subscription and restarted it years later but retained access and hosting to all my audio books.
Maybe Amazon has a way to do this for libraries? I’ve always wondered if there is a way I could give my Amazon audio books to a library?
Maybe opening a dialogue with Amazon about it world be a start?
Own v. Leases can be tricky. Purchasing does not imply owning.
Audible, for instance, even if it seems like you own the material, appears to me (as a non-lawyer) a clear lease. You are prohibited from re-selling your content and you are limited on how you may use the content, as you can read right here in Audible's terms of agreement: https://www.audible.com/legal/conditions-of-use.
> Content Restrictions You may not (i) transfer, copy or display Content, except as permitted in this Agreement; (ii) sell, rent, lease, distribute, or broadcast any Content; (iii) remove any proprietary notices or labels on Content; (iv) attempt to disable, bypass, modify, defeat, or otherwise circumvent any digital rights management or other protection system applied to Content or used as part of the Service; or (v) use the Service or Content for any commercial or illegal purpose.
This difference may not seem to matter... until it does.
Practically what this means is, Amazon / audible may choose to terminate their service at any time. Ir of when they stop offering Audible in the future, they have no obligation to give you the files.
You might think this is absurd because no large company would ever do this.
But this happened to, of all organizations, Microsoft Books in 2019 (which I couldn't have possibly imagined disappearing... But here we are):
For libraries, whose job is to preserver our cultural heritage and make it accessible, the idea of books being leases which can disappear at any time is even more devastating.
I have gotten most of my book suggestions from long form podcasts in past 5 or 6 years. I really would like to be able to not use Amazon to link to a book that I heard about and to be able to use the Global Library System (GLS) to share the link instead.
Then you would get suggestions from someone who has that book and is giving it away or which library has it avalible etc etc.
The librarian would also keep what you are looking for private and not sell your personal info for monitary gain. The libriarian culture IMHO seems to value your input and sometimes when I have returend to a library the librarian says. You know I was thinking about what you wanted last time and I have a few suggestions for you. :) I love that!
The Libby app is great, but it still treats ebooks like they are print copies: there are only a few copies available and we all have to wait in a hold queue until we can “check them out.”
This is silly. We should be able to read books the same way we watch movies or listen to music: on demand. The pay structure could work similar to Kindle Unlimited (or Netflix for that matter) where users pay a monthly fee, and writers earn money for every 1,000 words read.
There are a couple of startups who have tried to do this and failed (because the big five publishing houses wouldn’t let their books be part of it) but Kindle Unlimited and now Scribd are making a play for that space. Though I think Wattpad will destroy them all soon enough—they are by far the most popular reading option for Gen Z!
personally, i love the multi-functional locality of my library; i can go there to rest, or stumble upon a new book i prob wouldn't discover via "books recommended for you" on digital sites (or at least, it feels more like *my discovery*). it's also has a very handy public restroom which can be a gamechanger.
i've witnessed the library's powerful impact on my mother, an immigrant and senior. she has leveraged libraries' ESL courses and even took a course to become a health home aid worker (her first job in the USA) thanks to an announcement during a library ESL course. (the community bulletin can also be a really handy local resource). my mom struggles to use the internet, so it makes me wonder, what can an online library for ESL speakers and/or immigrants in north america/one specific neighborhood look like?... a big idea to grok!
There are 2 things that strike a chord with me most when considering the power of libraries and the corresponding lack of their presence in online communities. They both become hard to reconcile when scale is introduced. Nonetheless, I feel that some parametrization and prioritization could make them possible.
1. The librarian - not only from the perspective of wisdom and moderation, but also just as a form of general guidance. You basically have this incredible support function that is the heart of the institution. It is pretty much always in the central area of the space, and you are encouraged to approach them. Help centers, FAQs, and other forms of 'guidance' online are incredibly tertiary, lethargic, out of date, and if you dare try to get help from an actual person you must come prepared with great equanimity! What if the 'guidance' function within digital experiences was a primary feature? What if people could actually get in touch with someone, or have a really good digital support function? When I have the experience of a positive conversation with support it makes 100x more loyal to that product or community.
2. Familiarity - Over a decade ago when I was still in school, the library was my second home. It's not just about productive dialog, or interactions with people, or interactions with the books. It's the sense that you've been here over and over again, and it's reliable. It's always there. There is a feeling of predictability. I think human nature often craves structure and stable networks. The library presents that both in its institutional longevity and its structural permanence. Note, books may change or be refreshed or added daily, but the space is the space, and so even though a library represents the greatest vehicle for change, evolution, improvement, and progress, we can rest assured that the library will be there and we can feel at home. In relation to apps and websites that have ephemerality at its core - rapidly changing designs, formats, feeds, etc... - familiarity and predictability is the enemy to how they operate.
Human guidance and support in a virtual community is crucial, and as Eric W mentions a key component of all the best online communities. Hearing a human voice say “hello” in real-time when you’re coming into a virtual space is incredibly impactful, in my experience. I’ve spent many hours with my avatar sitting near the entry point of a world (while doing other work) just to provide a greeting to those coming in. There’s also something extra special about the serendipitous conversations that happen in that encounter, whether with someone new or familiar. Bringing us to your second point!
Familiarity requires a persistent environment and community, for certain. It also needs to be a reliably safe space, as you and others have emphasized. Part of that feeling of safety comes from the features and controls of the world, but as much (if not more) comes from the community itself. What behavior is (and isn’t) tolerated here? Is the environment designed for inclusivity, with both public and private spaces for conversations? What are the consequences for misbehavior? Questions every virtual space and community needs to consider.
On guidance and scaling, all the best online communities, no matter their platforms, have real humans who are there to welcome new people, demonstrate norms, and offer assistance. I've most commonly seen it as a group of moderators, but sometimes they're not actually empowered by the platform, and they may or may not be officially recognized. And of course, in particularly well-functioning communities, there's enough of a collaborative spirit that most members can do some of this work. At the same time, some generally-good online spaces actually run off the efforts of too-few people, and trouble begins if they get overwhelmed, have to leave for a time, or otherwise aren't able to keep fulfilling the same duties.
I do think this is a major source of difference in the experience between, say, joining a huge Facebook group, subreddit, or Discord server, where new people aren't really noticed and are expected to figure things out on their own, versus the ones that are necessarily smaller, but have that personal touch built in (by virtue of newcomers being noticed, and the people they can go to for help being fairly clearly visible).
There is too much knowledge in books, which cannot be searched through search engines, and there are various books in various countries and languages. If these books and knowledge can be interoperated, then human knowledge can have a breakthrough, we have too much repetitive knowledge, just because we cannot find the knowledge that already exists, the library should become a hub of knowledge or a Tower of Babel, where everyone collaborates and eventually forms a huge knowledge network.
We see this even in areas that are more accessible to search engines - all the research papers published on arxiv.org are searchable, but research is still repeated (and not necessarily in the good, result-reproducing way) and breakthroughs are prevented by people not knowing about each other's work. And this is true even among scientists whose jobs include reading papers as they come out in their field.
Solving the problem of not just helping people find the information they are looking for, but letting them know what information they don't know they should be looking for, would be an enormous accomplishment.
I'm particularly interested in this from the perspective of libraries as places where patrons can contribute. Some libraries include books written by local community members, or even published by them (Josh Kramer mentioned a zine class in another comment). Then there are events, both of the "club" type, where members of the same club contribute for each other, and the "performance" type, where the potential audience is the entire community.
This stands out to me because it's one of the things that modern Internet lacks. Publishing and performing is very hard without going through a for-profit company. In my ideal world, everyone would have their own Web server, but that seems pretty unlikely to be feasible. A digital library-equivalent could help provide hosting, and a variety of self-publishing options, from the social media-style "type a block of text here" to the blog-style "write what you want and customize it", to the full Web developer experience of "code a website".
Open platforms where people can host whatever they want often get into trouble with abuse, but libraries can provide a good model there, too. Betsy Streeter mentioned librarians as "wise moderators", which is exactly what happens in the physical world, and would be needed here.
Finally, it bears mentioning that clearly, all this would take money. The point about hosting is one of the direct examples, as is wise, educated moderators. One of the false promises of the social media era has been that you can do community-building entirely for free - set up a free Discord, or subreddit, or Fandom wiki, or Facebook group. But, beyond small groups that can mostly fly under the radar, this is one of the sources of problems. Public libraries are paid for by taxes, so investment from the community (ideally, investment arranged such that the burden doesn't fall too hard on the less-fortunate in the community), and sooner or later, any digital library projects will have to figure out their own ways.
You bring up an interesting and important point about publishing. I know there are several projects going on around blockchain and smart contracts in this vein. I do not have expertise in publishing, but it does seem like one of many industries that could be ripe for disruption with decentralized alternatives...
Following up on this, I would love to see a group of people band together and use a platform like Patreon to fund their own library-equivalent, using the funding for things like the hosting space I was talking about, and ideally to pay a librarian or two, to see whether it could be done and what they would learn.
When I think about the importance of the library in my community, I think about its location. My library is across from the largest park in Brooklyn and the area around it is a nexus of diverse people, vendors, activities, information, culture, and entertainment. It's a place where everyone can go for all kinds of of civic and general stuff. It all contributes to everyone's wellbeing and much of it is free. I would love a place like that on the internet. - Joi
I love this, and it makes me think, the idea isn't just "a" place on the Internet, right? Part of what makes libraries work is that they're localized to their communities. Having a single library, that tries to be "one size fits all" probably wouldn't work nearly as well.
The Internet erases a lot about distance, removing some of the reasons real-life libraries are separate, but, even putting aside things like time zones, different countries' laws, and different Internet speeds, I think being able to have libraries for different Internet communities would be incredibly valuable.
Thinking this through as I go, they wouldn't have to ignore each other. Real libraries share best practices, rely on the same system (in America at least) of graduate degrees for their employees, and often belong to larger organizations that enforce standards through accreditation. But in the end an individual public library usually has a Board of Trustees who set its direction, a Director who sets individual policies, and librarians making the day-to-day decisions. This gives the flexibility one library might focus more on, say, making local kids feel more welcome because that's what the community has needed, while another library might have a series of events and informational display on race relations because that's what their community needs.
I think we've seen what happens when we try to make one big area on the Internet that fits as many people as possible (to say nothing oh Facebook, Barrons chat anyone?). Focusing on making a kind of Internet-based library that serves one community, and helping other libraries spring up that can take lessons but do their own thing, seems like it could be really successful.
Love your point about libraries being localised to communities! I think the closest thing to this that I've seen on the internet is Reddit wikis - a collection of information which the users of that subreddit community think is important to keep easily accessible, and is built on or refined over time. As well as being a repository of external information it also allows the subreddit itself to become a 'library' by linking to important or valued posts in the community.
I love how physical libraries enable learning albeit at times with limited opportunities for social and experiential learning depending on the location. I would go to my childhood local library and pull a stack of books from the shelves, and get lost in novels sitting in the corner. I think this is where digital libraries could shine, creating spaces for discussion, questioning and synthesis. I'm imagining collaborative annotation, data visualization and embodiment of research and knowledge, and storytelling infrastructure to weave new narratives. I see digital libraries as spaces moving from knowledge consumption to wisdom generation, a key component of imagination infrastructure.
Vanessa is a New_ Public Contributing Editor and a great writer and thinker worth learning more about. Thanks Vanessa! –Josh
Love the shift to "wisdom generation." (+100 for imagination infrastructure!)
It feels like magic every time my children and I enter the library, welcomed. We browse without hurry, follow our curiosities and borrow without restraint. There is peace in the coming and going.
The public library is one of the few places that hits the right note of what it means to create a sense (or space) of belonging: It’s a combination of how it's designed, the people in it, and the unspoken rules and behaviors associated with it. The library, for me, was an incredible safe haven during a difficult time in my childhood and I remember there was no shame and no embarrassment that I often carried everywhere else -- the moment I walked into those doors there was always just an incredible amount of empathetic dignity and an open invitation to be. I wish more places, especially online, could embody what the library offers. Perhaps leaning more into trauma informed design could be a good start.
In college, I enjoyed running into friends at the library. In an internet library, it'd be cool to be able to see who else is browsing for the same information as you, and have a way to generate a meaningful interaction from that.
View counters from the early Web have long been out of fashion but they do have a bit of that kind of charm.
Come to think of it, a few webapps that use the "shared document" model like Google Docs, Dropbox Paper, and Miro show other people's cursors in Edit mode, and that absolutely has lead to the equivalent of bumping into a friend before. I'll see someone's cursor move as they click through a doc, and then go message them on whatever DM platform we share to say "Hey! I see you there! Any thoughts?" I hadn't noticed how much that's like running into someone at the library.
The libraries near me do SO much. There is a fabrication section with a 3d printer, a tool library to rent and learn how to use a tool for your project, and a sewing section too!
They are also invaluable for connecting people to services! Lending out computers, helping apply to jobs or write resumes. A general place for anyone to come in and rest and warm up. The internet has not a whole lot of places to just chill. There is always so many things in your face all the time. If you have a learning disability, or are uncomfortable with a computer, it's hard to know what to do then go to the usual places. A community room or pen pal system would be so cool.
I love seeing the storytimes for kids, and i just love looking through the stacks. Finding strange foreign films that I wouldn't have seen before, and checking out the events. A lot of authors will come through for talks, but they also do smaller more common events like teaching kids DnD.
When I was a kid/teenager, really liked using my library for:
- Live events, like author talks, cooking/craft classes, etc.
- They often had free passes to local museums and cultural events
I still use Libby to read most of my books, but the connection of the library to the rest of the local cultural ecosystem is what was most exciting to me about the physical location!
Yes! great point. I have taught comics and zine-making classes at DC libraries before and it's always been great. I also love Libby (and have concerns about its ownership).
One thing I've really missed during the pandemic are my library's study rooms, which you sign out to work in solo or with someone else for an hour or two at a time. Especially after two years of working ONLY from home, I miss having that place where I can go and focus for a little while.
Libraries, schools, churches— all physical anchors of and metaphors for community life. But libraries are perhaps the most democratic, radical, and generous. I’m not really in school or church much these days, the library (and bookstores) fill that nourishing third place role in my life— a place to learn, aspire, and connect.
A few things I’ve noticed in libraries, especially in the last decade:
- Everday innovation // Libraries and librarians are natural “last mile” innovators, listening and creatively responding to needs of a diverse public
- Service hubs // Whether explicit access to social services (e.g. assistance, IDs) or information hubs, local libraries often bridge the gaps in highly fragmented civic service delivery (e.g. new citizens, prison re-entry, etc)
- Beyond the book // Love the evolution about what can be borrowed at a library — hobby kits, local experts, language conversation partners, etc.
- Community curation // The murals, mini-exhibits, and displays in libraries (sometimes in partnership with museums) are such lovely ways to democratize access to culture and bring stories/knowledge to life.
Online, we see community managers, like librarians— creating third spaces for peer support and learning. However, like librairians, their skills, strategic insight, and needs are often overlooked and underleveraged. How might we view these roles in new ways?
Enshrined on Brooklyn Public Library— almost spiritual, no?
—
"Here are enshrined the longing of great hearts and noble things that tower above the tide, the magic word that winged wonder starts, the garnered wisdom that never dies." -Roscoe C. Brown
I'll offer this little guide a few friends did with Chicago Public Library/Copenhagen at IDEO that honors the creativity of librarians well. http://designthinkingforlibraries.com
So much of the public library is its accessibility - many without other access currently use public libraries to access the internet itself, so putting a library on the internet feels like it is placing a barrier to entry that doesn't exist in the '3D' version. So it feels like that would have to be dealt with somehow, through physical location or mobile connection or something like that. Like, could you 'check out' the whole library on a free device? How might inclusive online spaces incorporate the actual online access part?
Also we joke about the shushing in libraries but it's because it's such a signature of a successful space to have respectful norms like that, that feels like a core aspect of creating any online space - librarians as wise moderators.
The librarian as moderator is a great metaphor, but it's worth thinking about what kind of moderator a librarian is: an empowered, trained professional with broad expertise and sophisticated people skills! –Josh
Yes, and so much of that gets lost behind a keyboard, the way interactions are designed/limited now. I'm not even sure you can put it in there, because it's about deeply listening and connecting things in this human way, walking a kid over to a shelf, handing someone a stack of suggested books, instilling that sense of peace and resolve, moving around deliberately, these are qualitative things - taking in body language, when eyes light up, hearing subtext. Even just eye contact and greeting. I so vividly remember how the librarians moved and their welcoming faces. Oh, and the ka-chunk of that thing stamping the card in the book!
Heck, I'm editing and re-editing this knowing I'm not going to have any gestures or other things to work with... but I hear you on qualities of a moderator and that role.
I love libraries and have grown to appreciate their usefulness more as I got older. There are challenges with access (certain sections are blocked because of age or pedigree- reference sections in particular) and overdue books pose a stigma and penalty. We don't create stewardship when these structural barriers are created. Being able to cultivate and foster grace in spaces would be beneficial.
A lot of libraries around me are starting to become fine-free! Which itself is a reminder to me that libraries aren't perfect, but keep seeking to improve themselves (and they learn from each other: a decade ago, fine-free libraries were rare, and libraries often were against it. But the first few inspired a few more, and so on until now it's a pretty major movement.) In seeking inspiration from libraries for the Web, we should not only learn from how we think about and remember libraries, but in how libraries never stop looking for ways to improve and better serve their communities!
YES! As we should all be...
The events of the last week reminded me of the need for The Uncensored Library and initiatives like it. https://www.uncensoredlibrary.com/en
True! We fully endorse Maus and a wide range of banned books here at NP.
I love this question, I just submitted a BKC application on the same subject. My name's Mek, I help run Open Library at the Internet Archive, one of the world's first non-profit digital libraries.
To me, above all, libraries represent an opportunity for equitable access to the material required to allow all members of society to participate in the great conversation. They are a way of enabling us to pool our resources to help each other and promote common good. They are places which protect our privacy, help us find answers, and provide us with a safe place to think.
I've been asking 4 lines of inquiry:
1. Bringing Libraries Online. What does it look like for a public library to make the digital leap onto the Internet? What services does it provide? How does it make material accessible? How do these institutions deal with born-digital material? There are some major challenges to this happening: https://mekarpeles.medium.com/content-landlords-and-the-eviction-of-american-libraries-18461f9d819a
2.The Internet AS a Library. What does the Internet look like as a Library? i.e. what do libraries look like as they blossom beyond books? How might borrowing work in the native browser? How do libraries function with born-digital material? How are libraries browsed? Can patrons borrow from each other natively? Here's the future I imagine if the Internet was built as a Library:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAL5js2vl0E&t=2949s. I think it broadly resembles Danny Hillis's Learning Map: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CMdKeAMD_YzaS44dfRQK_Er17v0a1edCBn3rDUk75LI/edit?usp=sharing
3. A Defensible Commons. As @bhaviklathia perfectly says[1]: "WE NEED ONLINE COMMONS THAT ARE IMMUNE TO THE CORROSIVE IMPACT OF THE PROFIT INCENTIVE". What does this look like? Who can fund works for the commons? How is it funded? What is the Internet's First Sale Doctrine? Who regulates it and how -- what is the governance? What does the public domain of the future look like and who maintains it? Who ensures the holdings of the common are equitable and diverse? [1] https://twitter.com/bhaviklathia/status/1488288622335963137
4. The Evolving Needs of Patrons. The physical Carnegie library model exists to solve certain geographic constraints. In a fully digital world, what are the needs of patrons which the previous model isn't prepared to accommodate? For instance, online learning for parents, teachers, and students. Access to scholarship for researchers in remote areas. Tools for collaboration.
I think the modern library should be a social commons. Place to get information - sure. Books/internet/magazines etc should always be a part of the library. But a future library would be a great space & place for all folks in a given community to gather, interact and learn from each other, as well as from the resources in the library. My kids are often exposed to some of the more colourful characters in our community when we visit the library. And I love that aspect of it.
In our community, our library is in the core of the community where we don't have any open spaces. So if the library had a co-located park/open space with shelter where people could gather - ala town square - I would then encourage people to gather IRL in complement to online. We have parks - having a librarypark would allow that gathering of many layers of social strata to collect both inside and out.
I'd like to see that co-mingling of many layers of the community being able to gather online too at a digital librarypark. Place where you can cross-paths with someone that you never would otherwise.
Agreed, I love your framing:
> place for all folks in a given community to gather, interact and learn from each other, as well as from the resources in the library
I'm imagining an online library where college researchers have shared access to a workspace and the documents within.
Oh man - if my middle-school aged son could be researching a topic and have a scholar "sit next to him" and they shared some knowledge on the matter - that would be so powerful. That's a great thought!
Sure, risky. Fraught with peril if we think of all the potential negative outcomes. But also such a chance for a great experience for both!
I have a visceral reaction against public libraries on the internet. The physical library is quiet, casual, slow pace, distinctive smell, the anticipation of discovering an even better book while looking for the one I thought I wanted, running into friends, and joining in a meeting/concert/presentation on a common interest. The physical public library can't be replaced.
However, qualities that an "internet library" must have -- but are hard to foster on the internet -- (except for perhaps Wikipedia, which, yes, is a specific type of social media platform). Jonathan Rauch's book, The Constitution of Knowledge, contains a wonderful discussion of these qualities, which are found in one or another social media platform, but ALL of these essential qualities are found in no existing social media platform.
Me too. I find most internet places to be suseptible to abrasiveness. This almost never happens at a library. Human to human unrecorded un technology monitored interaction is key to authenticy.
Really like the ideas in "The Ecology of Law: Toward a Legal System in Tune with Nature and Community" by Fritjof Capra, Ugo Mattei
I feel if the concepts in his writings were integrated into any algorithims on the internet the internet would be a much better place.
I find that the intent of most programming is miyopic mostly becasue the programming is done in a vacumm that does not understand the wisdom of nature and the concept of "the commons"
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26485636-the-ecology-of-law
I think you hit it on the head. We have some ingredients for a constrictive digital commons - but no one has baked the cake...yet.
One idea I had in this arena: A new Social Community Platform (SCP). New_Public has my attention for this reason - I think they are collectively barking up this tree.
The basic premise: each element of this new SCP (user, group, non-profit, business, etc) has to be linked to a real-life, legally verified, entity. As in - you can't have an online-only group. There are platforms for online-only - lots.
What I envision is a digital space that is "bolted to the ground" such that - as an example - the physical library still exists, but it has a digital equivalent too. That way, my digital representation can go to the digital library, or physical to physical. Physical to digital - META :) And the experience(s) can be similar. Or different. That is up to the person/organization/business. But this way, we can maintain a sense of locality, in a system (the internet) that is so broad and world-wide. You then have a better ability to keep your online experience localized, and if you decide to 'travel' then you can do that online, with intent.
Want to visit the Louvre? - pay the fee, and come inside - without the plane fare & carbon emissions that goes with it. Want to learn about hiking groups near you - stay local "on the map".
Some would say: that sounds like another website and more work for the person/group/business. However most of them are already maintaining a website, and a FB page, and Google profile, and Twitter, and, and...
IF this new SCP was truly in service of building community, AND it attracted critical mass, THEN each real-world entity only needs one or possibly two digital entities (website still...?), and the corporately-linked ones (FB, Goog, Twit) can all mine their information from it - for a fee! The monolithic corporate ones would wither and die if we stopped populating them will all our content! ELSE - we stay on this digitally fragmented and soulless journey to who-knows-where... END_IF :)
Very insightful comments Christopher! I'm curious, do you believe the world will be better off if we forge towards housing more libraries on the internet... or perhaps not? Thanks for your time.
Hi Nick - I tried reading digital books and audiobooks, but in the end I came back to the physical book, where I can underline and easily flip back to previous chapters and my prevous underlining and comments. I like holding the physical book in my hands while I read. I like Rocky's insight above that the internet library's "digital space must be bolted to the ground" in a real, physical, local library. For me, it comes down to, am I using the internet or is it using me. I find that all internet connections are disconnected from reality by at least an order of magnitude, and thus disconnect me from reality. As long as I manage the disconnect for brief periods to accomplish my purpose, I am using the internet. When I get distracted and start doing things other than I intended, then the internet is using me. I really object to that.
The way you put it, I'm being terribly used by the Internet. 😔 🤗 By the way, I really like the way you worded your last comment. In fact, I agree! It's just something about that physical book experience that cannot be wholly duplicated across the web--particularly the smell of books. Although I did read about Samsung planning to create digital devices made to release smells. I digress...
It seems like there is this digital divide between accessing digital books and reading physical books. On one side you have those who love reading books online. On the other side you have those who prefer physical books and library experiences. Which, I find it interesting that digital reading experiences can be constantly improved upon to mimic physical book or library experiences. Thus the question becomes, are physical reading experiences being improved upon fast enough to keep pace with the digital world?
This is all very intriguing. Thank you Christopher, for your comments!
Libraries are one of the few places remaining that allow an individual to simply exist. They have no expectation of a purchase or a purpose. They do not try to sell anything. They do not track every movement, every book you pick up, or every aisle you browse. They do not generate tax revenue.
So a digital library should operate under the same principles. Everyone is on an equal footing. Everyone can offer something, but that doesn't mean everyone is amplified.
Perhaps Wikipedia is already a version of this?
My favorite thing about the library is how fulfilling it is to shift from a culture of "infinite scroll" to infinite learn--literally sprawled out between the stacks looking for something new to dive into. From the curated series that librarians set up, to the shift away from books as the only thing shared, to housing archival collections about community-specific history and locally produced cannon, libraries feel like the truest multi-functional, most welcoming, and most DIVERSE space in my community. I wish that the online world would feel more like this.
Oooh, I may steal "from infinite scroll to infinite learn." That's great!
Please do!
Infinite learn! Love. And +1 on local production of knowledge and community-specific history.
This is maybe inherent in the question, but perhaps worth calling out specifically: public libraries have "interpretive flexibility." They persisted and grew in America because they have been broadly popular to different groups of people for different reasons. The fact that one physical space can be the home for so many different visions (as illustrated by the great answers in this thread) is part of the power of public libraries.
The physical public library is a two-sided platform. Its permanence in a physical community with expert staff offers it the capacity to grow, develop, respond and evolve as neighborhood needs, media and technology shifts. I think interpretive flexibility has been key to (relatively) stable, democratic funding over the course of the past several decades.
This conversation is amazing and so needed. I agree strongly with so many of the points made here about online libraries needing to be equitable, social, interactive spaces for learning as well as building community and providing a safe, welcoming space. I’ve been inspired by New_Public in thinking about these much-needed public spaces (the parks, the libraries). My current work is focused on community-building and equity-gap-bridging in virtual worlds.
I’ve just finished my first attempt at a virtual library experience for Black History month. It’s on the Virbela Open Campus platform, but the concepts could be applied to other virtual worlds as well. I am not a designer or programmer by training, and this platform provides users with many customization options for an average user (images, audio, video, presentations, etc.). For example, using photographic images of real libraries to help users feel like they are in that type of space. Using Biophilic Design principles (images and sounds of nature) to create a feeling of calm and quiet. Thinking about concepts like skeuomorphism to help guide users through a space (if you see an image of a book, you might think to click on it to “open” it, linking to more information online). Facilitating community by having areas with virtual tables and chairs and a private volume “bubble" for book clubs, etc.
I would be grateful for any thoughts and feedback from this group of thought leaders. I think it’s so important to realize the benefit of perpetual, welcoming virtual spaces for learners (of all ages) and communities (local and global). They afford us an additional layer of connection with other humans to help lift us all up with knowledge and career opportunities. The virtual public library at the heart of successful online communities, so as is being discussed here, we need to get it right!
The first time I've been to a "public" library was when I lived in Copenhagen, Denmark. I was 38 years old. my kids and I loved that the libraries provided books in the languages of communities surrounding the library. but what impressed the most was the freedom and how EVERYONE uses the library which made it such a community space. after my time in Copenhagen I decided to go back to Sudan and start my own library starting with my own collection of books: Sudanartanddesignlibrary.com ....
The Idea of an Internet public library wouldn't be ACCESSIBLE in places like Sudan due to the instability of electricity and how expensive internet is.
Wow, really cool to hear you started your own library!
I do think it's important not to miss that any attempts to make an public library on the Internet need to never try to replace physical libraries. As you say, they're just too inaccessible. I'm much more interested in how libraries can be used to inspire better places on the Internet, so that when people do manage to get online, they can have positive interactions and supportive places to spend their time, just like libraries can be.
In fact, I would love to see the same kind of phenomenon you're describing in person happen online too - someone who is commonly on the Internet could visit a library-inspired Internet space, be impressed by the freedom and community they see there, and then go make one for their own Internet community to try and further share the experience.
But you're right, this is entirely from the perspective of having a choice about where to go on the Internet, rather than considering whether you can access the Internet in the first place.
I wonder if there are some insights to be gained from the success of Little Free Libraries (the mini libraries you see in yards, some schools, parks and other public spaces). There are now more than 150,000 of them in the US alone with growing efforts to place them in low income areas and communities far from public libraries where children especially have little access to books. There are so many retired teachers, former librarians and many others who enjoy acting as Library stewards and maintaining and curating their little free libraries. I wonder if there is a way to translate that passion and pride into something that worked as digital spaces.
This art project may be of interest here: https://libraryofbabel.info/About.html. The structure, organization, and conceptualization of Borges' original work is reflected here, and can potentially inspire the construction of other systems.
One thing I miss and love about libraries is immersion and serendipity. (And librarian curation!)
While goodreads, bookshop, amazon (I know, yuck) introduce recommendations and lists, there's nothing like going into a stack looking for one title and leaving with a stack of surprises. The ability to browse, page through books, immerse—before bringing books home. (Not to mention carrels...) Le sigh— nothing quite close online.
(....and the old school library pocket and card to see who has read it before you?! Game changer in elementary school.)
With a huge nod to Dipayan Ghosh (Terms of Disservice, terrific read) -- Libraries (both public and academic) can help us reconceive the internet as a public good, and for the most part, I think they are trying to do that.
Tech company giants would like us to believe that the current internet was inevitable. That the tradeoffs (which are so troubling to civil society - the data surveillance, devastating deployment of AI/ML, etc) are just an inevitable part of the territory. In other words, all that we could ever have expected from the internet is just what has been delivered by Google, Facebook and Amazon. They’ll take credit (and profits) for what we like – finding things, connecting with people, getting stuff. But any of the tradeoffs imposed by their business models and practices are not their problem, and they want us thoroughly indoctrinated – that there is no better way to have developed a world wide internet for civil society. For the tech bros, the job of political leaders is just to squirrel around and try to mitigate the horrors this "model" of the internet has brought about. In their view, we just don't understand how innovation works if we believe we could ever have had an internet whose affordances could be fully directed to addressing racism, poverty, climate change, international conflict, universal quality healthcare, and the like. Could we have had a different internet? Is the development of the internet so very different from the way that the unscrupulous flocked to the opium trade, slavery, colonial exploitation, imperialist violence and more because of the huge profits to be made?
My love for libraries is that they are a place to ask these kinds of questions and for society to come together around possibilities.
We've been talking a LOT about rejecting inevitability lately. Also Dipayan is a New_ Public Contributing Editor and we're big fans of his!
Ideally the online community would:
1. Mimic my ability to share or give away a physical book and get it back or give the ability to pass it on to the person it was shared with.
It would also support authors by hosting their works.
Maybe a NFT that is attached to a book / audiobook / video that allows the media to be bought sold and loaned out.
2. The online community would also allow a user to recreate the user experiance of walking into a real library in real life IRL and have someone help them find/search for information they are looking for.
I love IRL librarys becasue the staff/librarirans are alwasy so knowlegable and super quiet/respectful.
If there was a way to recreate this experiance online that would be so useful.
Luke
Good point. We love the Libby app, which has facilitated the borrowing of so many ebooks and audiobooks during the pandemic, but it's got nothing on librarians in terms of recommendation and finding what you're actually looking for.
Lex Fridman has mentined a few times the ability to deploy your own personal algorithm to do things for you the user.
I'd love to see a Library Platform that allowed me to build my own search algorithim. Like the one on YouTube but with the ability to make your personal algorithim avalible for others to leverage.
Kind of like when you talk to someone you know who has information about a topic you don't. They have their own way of thinking about something (their algoritim) and you are using it to help find update your own algorithim.
Duplicate that capability in the virtual world would be amazing.
Allow users to create non monitary or monitary relationships when using somone elses algorithim and that internet would become pretty cool.
You could do things like you do in real life. When you find somone who knows how to find something you can't becasue of their understanding, their algorithm, and in stead of google maintaining your algorithim and all the work you put into it to "tweak it" you the user would monitize it or not (make it avalible freely).
That would be soooooo cool. I want to work on building that platform!!!
Also, with respect to Libby, they've pulled the rug out from under libraries.
You can read an in-depth analysis here:
https://mekarpeles.medium.com/content-landlords-and-the-eviction-of-american-libraries-18461f9d819a
Libraries used to purchase books and lend them. This meant:
1. Libraries pay once for a book
2. With each passing year, libraries retain access to books
3. These books eventually enter the public domain
But with Libby/Overdrive:
1. A library is renting the book
2. A library must pay an exorbitant markup for the digital book (which they're forced to do because libraries don't have engineers to compete and create their own lending system). This means libraries are affording fewer books. But it gets worse.
3. Because of [1], the library must *re-lease* the book each passing year. This not only means even fewer books each year, it means books actually *disappear* from their holdings over time.
4. Because these books are leased and not owned, libraries have different rights. For instance, the books are never owned an so libraries can't take their copy and bring them into the public domain. And there's no promise a publisher will keep 70+ year books around which aren't profitable. So:
What happens to the public domain?
This is a raw deal for tax payers who are:
* paying more to get less.
* getting robbed of a public domain.
* having their commons disappear each year a library can't afford to re-lease a book.
Interesting. Maybe the libraries should talk to Amazon about this. My agreement with Amazons Audible is to purchase books on their platform. I have cancelled my audible subscription and restarted it years later but retained access and hosting to all my audio books.
Maybe Amazon has a way to do this for libraries? I’ve always wondered if there is a way I could give my Amazon audio books to a library?
Maybe opening a dialogue with Amazon about it world be a start?
Own v. Leases can be tricky. Purchasing does not imply owning.
Audible, for instance, even if it seems like you own the material, appears to me (as a non-lawyer) a clear lease. You are prohibited from re-selling your content and you are limited on how you may use the content, as you can read right here in Audible's terms of agreement: https://www.audible.com/legal/conditions-of-use.
> Content Restrictions You may not (i) transfer, copy or display Content, except as permitted in this Agreement; (ii) sell, rent, lease, distribute, or broadcast any Content; (iii) remove any proprietary notices or labels on Content; (iv) attempt to disable, bypass, modify, defeat, or otherwise circumvent any digital rights management or other protection system applied to Content or used as part of the Service; or (v) use the Service or Content for any commercial or illegal purpose.
This difference may not seem to matter... until it does.
Practically what this means is, Amazon / audible may choose to terminate their service at any time. Ir of when they stop offering Audible in the future, they have no obligation to give you the files.
You might think this is absurd because no large company would ever do this.
But this happened to, of all organizations, Microsoft Books in 2019 (which I couldn't have possibly imagined disappearing... But here we are):
https://www.npr.org/2019/07/07/739316746/microsoft-closes-the-book-on-its-e-library-erasing-all-user-content
For libraries, whose job is to preserver our cultural heritage and make it accessible, the idea of books being leases which can disappear at any time is even more devastating.
I have gotten most of my book suggestions from long form podcasts in past 5 or 6 years. I really would like to be able to not use Amazon to link to a book that I heard about and to be able to use the Global Library System (GLS) to share the link instead.
Then you would get suggestions from someone who has that book and is giving it away or which library has it avalible etc etc.
The librarian would also keep what you are looking for private and not sell your personal info for monitary gain. The libriarian culture IMHO seems to value your input and sometimes when I have returend to a library the librarian says. You know I was thinking about what you wanted last time and I have a few suggestions for you. :) I love that!
The Libby app is great, but it still treats ebooks like they are print copies: there are only a few copies available and we all have to wait in a hold queue until we can “check them out.”
This is silly. We should be able to read books the same way we watch movies or listen to music: on demand. The pay structure could work similar to Kindle Unlimited (or Netflix for that matter) where users pay a monthly fee, and writers earn money for every 1,000 words read.
There are a couple of startups who have tried to do this and failed (because the big five publishing houses wouldn’t let their books be part of it) but Kindle Unlimited and now Scribd are making a play for that space. Though I think Wattpad will destroy them all soon enough—they are by far the most popular reading option for Gen Z!
personally, i love the multi-functional locality of my library; i can go there to rest, or stumble upon a new book i prob wouldn't discover via "books recommended for you" on digital sites (or at least, it feels more like *my discovery*). it's also has a very handy public restroom which can be a gamechanger.
i've witnessed the library's powerful impact on my mother, an immigrant and senior. she has leveraged libraries' ESL courses and even took a course to become a health home aid worker (her first job in the USA) thanks to an announcement during a library ESL course. (the community bulletin can also be a really handy local resource). my mom struggles to use the internet, so it makes me wonder, what can an online library for ESL speakers and/or immigrants in north america/one specific neighborhood look like?... a big idea to grok!
There are 2 things that strike a chord with me most when considering the power of libraries and the corresponding lack of their presence in online communities. They both become hard to reconcile when scale is introduced. Nonetheless, I feel that some parametrization and prioritization could make them possible.
1. The librarian - not only from the perspective of wisdom and moderation, but also just as a form of general guidance. You basically have this incredible support function that is the heart of the institution. It is pretty much always in the central area of the space, and you are encouraged to approach them. Help centers, FAQs, and other forms of 'guidance' online are incredibly tertiary, lethargic, out of date, and if you dare try to get help from an actual person you must come prepared with great equanimity! What if the 'guidance' function within digital experiences was a primary feature? What if people could actually get in touch with someone, or have a really good digital support function? When I have the experience of a positive conversation with support it makes 100x more loyal to that product or community.
2. Familiarity - Over a decade ago when I was still in school, the library was my second home. It's not just about productive dialog, or interactions with people, or interactions with the books. It's the sense that you've been here over and over again, and it's reliable. It's always there. There is a feeling of predictability. I think human nature often craves structure and stable networks. The library presents that both in its institutional longevity and its structural permanence. Note, books may change or be refreshed or added daily, but the space is the space, and so even though a library represents the greatest vehicle for change, evolution, improvement, and progress, we can rest assured that the library will be there and we can feel at home. In relation to apps and websites that have ephemerality at its core - rapidly changing designs, formats, feeds, etc... - familiarity and predictability is the enemy to how they operate.
Human guidance and support in a virtual community is crucial, and as Eric W mentions a key component of all the best online communities. Hearing a human voice say “hello” in real-time when you’re coming into a virtual space is incredibly impactful, in my experience. I’ve spent many hours with my avatar sitting near the entry point of a world (while doing other work) just to provide a greeting to those coming in. There’s also something extra special about the serendipitous conversations that happen in that encounter, whether with someone new or familiar. Bringing us to your second point!
Familiarity requires a persistent environment and community, for certain. It also needs to be a reliably safe space, as you and others have emphasized. Part of that feeling of safety comes from the features and controls of the world, but as much (if not more) comes from the community itself. What behavior is (and isn’t) tolerated here? Is the environment designed for inclusivity, with both public and private spaces for conversations? What are the consequences for misbehavior? Questions every virtual space and community needs to consider.
On guidance and scaling, all the best online communities, no matter their platforms, have real humans who are there to welcome new people, demonstrate norms, and offer assistance. I've most commonly seen it as a group of moderators, but sometimes they're not actually empowered by the platform, and they may or may not be officially recognized. And of course, in particularly well-functioning communities, there's enough of a collaborative spirit that most members can do some of this work. At the same time, some generally-good online spaces actually run off the efforts of too-few people, and trouble begins if they get overwhelmed, have to leave for a time, or otherwise aren't able to keep fulfilling the same duties.
I do think this is a major source of difference in the experience between, say, joining a huge Facebook group, subreddit, or Discord server, where new people aren't really noticed and are expected to figure things out on their own, versus the ones that are necessarily smaller, but have that personal touch built in (by virtue of newcomers being noticed, and the people they can go to for help being fairly clearly visible).
There is too much knowledge in books, which cannot be searched through search engines, and there are various books in various countries and languages. If these books and knowledge can be interoperated, then human knowledge can have a breakthrough, we have too much repetitive knowledge, just because we cannot find the knowledge that already exists, the library should become a hub of knowledge or a Tower of Babel, where everyone collaborates and eventually forms a huge knowledge network.
We see this even in areas that are more accessible to search engines - all the research papers published on arxiv.org are searchable, but research is still repeated (and not necessarily in the good, result-reproducing way) and breakthroughs are prevented by people not knowing about each other's work. And this is true even among scientists whose jobs include reading papers as they come out in their field.
Solving the problem of not just helping people find the information they are looking for, but letting them know what information they don't know they should be looking for, would be an enormous accomplishment.
I'm particularly interested in this from the perspective of libraries as places where patrons can contribute. Some libraries include books written by local community members, or even published by them (Josh Kramer mentioned a zine class in another comment). Then there are events, both of the "club" type, where members of the same club contribute for each other, and the "performance" type, where the potential audience is the entire community.
This stands out to me because it's one of the things that modern Internet lacks. Publishing and performing is very hard without going through a for-profit company. In my ideal world, everyone would have their own Web server, but that seems pretty unlikely to be feasible. A digital library-equivalent could help provide hosting, and a variety of self-publishing options, from the social media-style "type a block of text here" to the blog-style "write what you want and customize it", to the full Web developer experience of "code a website".
Open platforms where people can host whatever they want often get into trouble with abuse, but libraries can provide a good model there, too. Betsy Streeter mentioned librarians as "wise moderators", which is exactly what happens in the physical world, and would be needed here.
Finally, it bears mentioning that clearly, all this would take money. The point about hosting is one of the direct examples, as is wise, educated moderators. One of the false promises of the social media era has been that you can do community-building entirely for free - set up a free Discord, or subreddit, or Fandom wiki, or Facebook group. But, beyond small groups that can mostly fly under the radar, this is one of the sources of problems. Public libraries are paid for by taxes, so investment from the community (ideally, investment arranged such that the burden doesn't fall too hard on the less-fortunate in the community), and sooner or later, any digital library projects will have to figure out their own ways.
You bring up an interesting and important point about publishing. I know there are several projects going on around blockchain and smart contracts in this vein. I do not have expertise in publishing, but it does seem like one of many industries that could be ripe for disruption with decentralized alternatives...
Following up on this, I would love to see a group of people band together and use a platform like Patreon to fund their own library-equivalent, using the funding for things like the hosting space I was talking about, and ideally to pay a librarian or two, to see whether it could be done and what they would learn.